Discussion: Thumbs Up/Down





Well, thumbs down from me, too, on the new Netflix rating system.

This really inconsiderate, thoughtless, mindless, and idiotic change has already generated fifteen comments. Because the comments are split between the main Discussions page and the Complaints page, it seemed like a good idea to put them all together. So I have copied them here, below.

Please feel free to continue, jump in, or, if you have a different opinion of the new ratings system, offer an alternative point of view. As always, everyone is welcome.


87 comments:

  1. From the Complaints Page:April 6, 2017 at 3:38 PM


    Jeremy Mason April 5, 2017 at 2:17 PM
    I dont like this thumbs up thumbs down crab... some shows have a % of what fits what you watch, but if ur searching thru a bunch of movies u cant see ratings from them at all, Netflix seems to be making it harder to distinquish between indie movies, hollywood movies, international movies, and blending them all into "not originals" lol because its getting harder and harder to use efficiently.. IMO anyways

    Replies:

    Kari April 5, 2017 at 2:39 PM
    I've literally spent over a decade rating things in Netflix and that's all.... gone now????

    They can't even be bothered to import old ratings data into their thumb format???

    Luke April 5, 2017 at 7:41 PM
    For now, the DVD side still has the star ratings which is good as I've been rating everything I watch since I joined about a decade ago. The thumbs up and down are only for the streaming side at least for now anyway.

    I do like the fact that, if you give a movie a thumbs down, it turns black and white and fades. I think I read somewhere that giving something a thumbs down means it won't show up again. I'll have to try it tomorrow.

    I'd like to be able to hide those movies I'm never going to watch like the Hindu stuff or whatever they are (Netflix got a whole slew of them at once a few weeks back and my New Arrivals section is clogged with them).

    Jeremy Mason April 5, 2017 at 11:25 PM
    Yeah but what if you thumbs down something and then you decide a year later you might like those Hindu movies, but none of them show up? They just need to keep it simple and basic. itll keep everyone happy

    Jeremy Mason April 5, 2017 at 11:33 PM
    And Kari i know me too! Any written reviews are still there, but no star ratings!!! (also checked out your profile haha, i too am a guitar player!!! id love to hear something of yours email me jeremy.mason09@gmail.com. Im from New Hampshire and always looking for talent!!)

    Luke April 6, 2017 at 7:30 AM
    Anything you give a thumbs down to will still show up if you specifically search for it later by typing in the title. It just won't show up on your homepage (and hopefully the genre category - I'll have to check that).

    Jeremy Mason April 6, 2017 at 11:57 AM
    Yeah, but i dont like that, same with Pandora, what if your music or movie tastes change and u want those to appear on ur homepage? u should be able to choose how you want your movies displayed

    Travis April 6, 2017 at 12:15 PM
    in the original netflix there used to be a button for "not interested." i only ever used it a few times and when i was quite sure i didn't ever want to see them and didn't want them recommended. many years later (about 10), sorting through my ratings, i ended up clearing at least a couple of those ratings because i've changed since then. i'd rather just ignore movies and shows the old fashioned way, with my brain, but that's personal preference based on experience.

    that said, i see a lot of the same content advertised on the netflix homepage and in the app and some content that i know is available (because i've seen it or added it to My List) never advertised, so if thumbs down freshens up the recommendations for people i can understand the appeal. at this point i think i'm done rating titles for streaming unless they change it back to stars.

    Luke April 6, 2017 at 1:09 PM
    I went through every movie and show available of Netflix streaming today and gave each one I've seen a thumb up or thumb down. Yes, each time you give something a thumb down, the box turns black and white and fades. No, it doesn't go away entirely so you can still see it if you change your mind. By the way, if you want to reverse a thumb down, just click on the thumb down again and it'll reverse and the box will go back to normal.

    ReplyDelete
  2. From the Discussions and Ideas Page:April 6, 2017 at 3:46 PM


    Kari April 5, 2017 at 2:56 PM
    Thumb rating rolled out to my account today... without even translating my 11 years of faithful ratings to *any* kind of positive/negative information about the movies. I've called Netflix to try to report this as a real problem- it's one thing to force me to accept a new way of rating movies (which I don't like), but to at the same time strip out all my historical data and make me start fresh in their recommendation engine??? According to the person I talked to, my only recourse is to go back into my history (ratings history is still archived on the profile page) and convert everything from stars to thumbs. Thousands of movies from over a decade of use. I am Not Happy.

    Replies:

    Travis April 5, 2017 at 3:29 PM
    i came here to post about this as well, having received the email:

    "Your stars will still shine.
    Your previous star ratings will be used to personalize your Netflix experience."

    as you say, the front page no longer shows star ratings but instead a "match" percentage and the ability to rate it thumbs up or down. thankfully, both versions of the "MoviesYouveSeen" page are still showing my star ratings, and the discs side hasn't dumbed down yet. i could continue to rate stars on "dvd.netflix.com" and hope they never change, but i have no faith in that so i still need to transfer my ratings to IMDB, just like netflix is now expecting us to translate our years of careful and nuanced star ratings to some silly thumbs.

    Lee K April 6, 2017 at 5:32 AM
    I use, well used, ratings for more than simply ratings. In MyList, they would indicate which series I've started and which movies I've completely watched. This made flipping through MyList more useful. NetFlix keeps taking away features that made them stand out from the ever increasing competition. 10+ years of ratings, reduced to some binary facebook tool. Another stupid move on NetFlix's part. Remember when NetFlix's proprietary rating system was one of their advertised selling points?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From the Discussions and Ideas Page:April 6, 2017 at 3:50 PM

      [Following is another batch of replies - there were too many words to get them all in one comment.]


      Kari April 6, 2017 at 7:50 AM
      Oh, good tip about the DVD side, Travis! I guess I'll be flipping back and forth between the two a lot more now D: D:

      I called again this morning and got a really sympathetic rep who admitted he also doesn't like the new thumb system haha. I asked that they at least return to showing recommendation information about *every* movie- if there's only a 5% chance I'll like something, I want to know that too, so I don't waste my time!! As it is, there's a small minority of movies and shows with percentages, and everything else is one big blank.

      I went through some of my ratings last night to convert to thumbs, and found some things that I had given 1 or 2 stars in the past recommended as "75%," so I'm pretty pessimistic on the historical data actually being used to drive this new system >:(

      Travis April 6, 2017 at 7:53 AM
      Lee K, i totally agree with you. it's confounding and truly catering to the lowest common denominator and basest impulse. unfortunately, it seems when we (people who read and run this blog) call customer service we get dismissed as superusers. it will take more of the average joes and janes calling and complaining that they don't like the new system for it to be reversed, if that's even possible.

      incidentally and thankfully, i have my manually ordered My List organized for movies i've seen and shows i've started, but if i didn't, and had a different system that was just as good or even better, i would be really annoyed by the change. even as it stands, i can't just skim through and see what i've already rated so those titles jump out more. netflix keeps finding ways to make the user experience worse, even if it's visually slicker.

      Anonymous April 6, 2017 at 10:39 AM
      Another utterly stupid move on Netflix's part. I've also noticed, in addition to the many movies without any % rating, many are rated as 'new'. So, apparently if something is new, they can't tell if a person would enjoy it or not. Wouldn't new movies be the ones which would benefit the most from having the rating so someone could see something new was added and could make an informed decision about whether to watch or add it to their 'My List' queue? I fail to follow 'Netflix's logic in their reasoning for many of the changes they make. I have always rated the movies and shows that I have watched on Netflix. However, I will not do so going forward since the majority of the movies I watch are in between something I really love and something I really hate.

      Delete
  3. It does not even work I thumbs down most of there MA rated garbage originals and thumb up the Y, G, PG and one or two 14 rating and what happens when I open the app yesterday I see that ugly Netflix logo with a bad MA rating for a vulgar stand up comedy yet another thumbs down.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think the system Netflix has to make personal recommendations to each subscriber is separate from advertising their own shows. Even if they can figure out how to give you recommendations for shows you want to watch, I suspect they'll still put up ads and promos for their own garbage.

      Delete
    2. Hulu posts originals in the main spotlight sometimes usually next day airing however looking at the recommendations they are much better and are actually focused on licensed content I might like. I found more things to watch then Notflix useless pushing of garbage mature originals I despise.

      Delete
  4. After spending tens of millions of dollars on trying to develop the most sophisticated algorithm possible to identify each subscriber's next preferred film/show to stream, and failing at the task, Netflix has given up the effort. Now they ask a simple yes/no question: do you want to see more films like this one (thumbs up) or not (thumbs down). This is about as unsophisticated a system as can be. But it will probably work better than the mess Netflix had.
    I'm uncertain about the best strategy to employ. Thumbs up to too many films, of different genres, will only give a confused mishmash of recommendations, just like the Netflix system has done. I think I'll try giving a thumbs up to only those few films I would have given a 5 star rating to, and get more like them recommended, and give a thumbs down just to those few I would have given a 1 or 2 star rating to, and get few recommendations of that sort. Most films, which I'd have rated with 3 or 4 stars, will get no thumb at all. I'll have to keep my own record of the films I watch, as I can't count on Netflix for this very simple task.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've settled on the same system.

      What I hate is that now I can't get a read on how I'll actually feel about most movies. I usually look up the things that are about to expire from this site's list, and if it was somewhere in the 4+ star range, probably check it out (and found many a hidden gem that way!!!). Now the vast majority of movies have no rating information at all on them, so I can't tell what's good or not D: D: D:

      Delete
  5. I just looked at the Netflix app on my iPad, and the "thumbs" have disappeared!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. Interesting - wonder what, if anything, that might mean?
      Thumbs still showing on the NF website on my computer, and also on the smart TV NF app.

      So far, there haven't been thumbs on My List. There used to be stars there. They've probably jumped the gun again, and debuted their new swell idea before everything was in place to support it.

      Delete
    2. i wouldn't expect thumbs on My List. if anything, they may add percentage matches once they accumulate enough data.


      i'll now share my experience using the ps3 app last night, now that stars have been replaced by the new system there, too.

      as others have said, the vast majority of titles have no percentage match. most are bare, and some say "new."

      my problem for years has been the predicted star ratings for me were outlandish. this was especially true for "original" series, which were all near 5 stars. among the titles in My List with percentage matches, a lot of them were netflix' own content, and true to form they were largely skewed high, including iron fist at a whopping 98%, even higher than the much better critically and popularly received other marvel netflix titles like daredevil. i was surprised one or two of the originals were as low as in the 50s, but far more of them were in the high 90s, so that problem hasn't gone away entirely.

      the biggest issues were the lack of any percentage match on most titles and that i have to rely on my memory of what i've seen. the streaming app would pull my thousands of ratings from netflix, even though my recommendations were never great because they only ever factored in what i actually watched and rated in the app rather than on "dvd.netflix.com." "watch again" would correctly show titles i've rated, even with my highest ratings that i wish did influence the recommendation algorithm. other than that one section presumably, it's become a lot less convenient to browse because there's no visual indication i've rated the title and thus seen it already.

      it's also weird to have a percentage match for titles i've rated. of course it's a match, i've seen it and given it a positive rating. i haven't yet looked enough to see whether there are titles i've given middle or the occasional low ratings to that have high percentage matches or vice versa.

      i'm hoping the thumbs up and down remain personal and don't have an influence on how netflix perceives the overall quality to be, but i have to assume if their content is getting overwhelming thumbs down they won't be inclined to renew, license, or produce more of it.

      one of my masochistic pleasures in life is checking the most recent "reviews" on newly added streaming content, and i wasn't surprised to see a lot of these yesterday were customers complaining about the new system.

      Delete
    3. correction: there is no "watch again" category. if i want to see something i've watched before, i must rely on my memory or look it up elsewhere.

      Delete
    4. correction to the correction: there is a "watch again" category. it just isn't always offered.

      Delete
  6. I honestly have no opinion on the rating system. I will admit it's a bit odd not to see the stars anymore. However, I actually never took advantage of the rating system. (Which makes me an odd man out.)

    Nonetheless, I did find an article on this I thought some of you might find interesting.

    http://exstreamist.com/everyone-is-giving-the-netflix-ratings-system-a-thumbs-down/

    They briefly compare the new thumbs up and down system to that of Pandora's. They also quoted one Reddit user as saying "I'm disappointed with the change in the rating system like most everyone else. Decided to call their 800 number and their rep told me this was a trail, so if you're that upset at the change... Tell them. They took my info and listened to me vent for a bit. Eventually I was told they giving this a try but in the end, if they hear enough poor reactions to the change, they could move away from the thumbs up/down ratings. Took two minutes and from my experience, Netflix has been pretty good about listening to feedback."

    Now I realize the rep may have been trying to appease the customer but I thought I would pass it along.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The thumbs are back on the iPad app. I have mixed feelings on thumbs vs. stars. My general practice under the stars system was to leave either a five-star or a one-star rating. The stars I received back on content usually bore no resemblance to what I would have given particular content so whatever algorithm Netflix was using never worked for me. Now I appear to be getting these percentage matches, except for foreign subtitled content and some content on my list that I have never watched. So I get a 98% match for Sherlock but no rating for Wallander in Swedish? Also, I am getting an 85% match on One Day at a Time which I have never watched and don't intend to. On other content that I have watched and really liked, I am getting a 65 to 75% match. This all makes about as much sense as the star system and is equally useless to me. It would be much more useful to me to tie it into the Rotten Tomato scores or the IMDb rating system. If I see a movie or TV program on Netflix show up on Netflix that I haven't watched, I generally look at reviews by critics and viewers to see if it is worth watching. Remember the good old days when you could leave a review on the Netflix site? In figuring out what content to put on Its streaming site, Netflix has to be using a different algorithm than the percentage match I am seeing on my screen since I don't know anyone who would watch the Adam Sandler movies they are financing but apparently someone in Romania or Croatia does. As far as I can tell, I am not seeing a percentage match under 65% and most of my matches are 85% or higher. I will know their algorithm is working when I start seeing matches in the low teens instead of no matches, which are proportionally higher for content I am unlikely to watch. As for subtitled content, Netflix must still be making up its mind as to whether or not I like captions!

    If we are going to get a thumbs system, can't we at least have the option of a sideways thumb like Siskel & Ebert used to have?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Good thing that Netflix isn't in the dating app business.

    ReplyDelete
  9. My iPad is still showing star ratings, but I can't tell what they're being pulled from- things that were 4-5 stars for me before the Thumb Fiasco are now 1-2 stars???? None of the ratings match dvd.netflix, either.

    My best guess is that the iPad is somehow matching stars to those mysterious percentages, especially given how off they seem for everyone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The percentages are supposedly based on your thumb ratings AND your viewing history. So if, say, you usually watch a lot of dark detective series on streaming but typically watch romcoms on DVD, the ratings aren't going to match.

      Delete
    2. I mean, streaming and DVD ratings haven't matched for me in years- but before this week, it seemed more that streaming was likely to inflate things by about a star (probably to make up for the fact that there would otherwise only be about 200 4+ star titles for me on streaming at any given time haha).

      Now, there is almost no correlation. So who even knows what's going on.

      Delete
    3. I've noticed the mis-match in ratings between DVD and online too. Does make me question why. Is it comparing my viewing habits with a separate set of users, DVD user ratings vs online users?

      I agree with your one star inflation on the online side also. I only use the website and the app on my smart-tv, so where are people seeing these percentages?

      Delete
  10. the most important thing to me about the rating system was that I could tell what I have seen before. Sure huge hits I remember I watched but I have seen thousands of movies and don't always remember right away if I saw it. Now I have no idea if I saw it without doing research because of their stupid system. Why not just have both so you don't alienate anyone. No it has to be their way or the highway.

    Here is a thought if you want to improve your front page and it is what I would think is a brilliant idea which of course the moron designers in netflix would never get. Give me 2 flags in my settings so I can tell you that I don't want to see movies I have already rated on the front page. Also give me a flag so I can tell you I don't want to see movies on the front page that are already in my Queue. You know so I can actually see suggested films that I don't already know about. Almost my whole front page is filled with movies I have seen or movies in my queue. Not very brilliant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Netflix give us options? I laugh. In thinking about the website MyList, I don't follow Netflix thinking at all. To me, it's a queuing tool so I can group shows and select movies to watch via the smart-tv app. If I'm going to watch it tonight, I'll pop it to the top of my list so when I start the tv app, it's right there ready to go. When I finish binge watching a series, I want to quickly move it back down in the queue with other series I've started. If it's a movie, I rate it and drop it from my list. In selecting a title, we usually go by genre, but Netflix doesn't give us genre on the website MyList. Also, I don't need pleasing graphics for a queuing tool. I need speed and information like title, genre, time, rating (both MPAA & stars) and maybe a brief summary like the pop-up the dvd queue STILL HAS. Giving us the ability to check-box select which titles in our list, or not on our list, meet this would be outstanding. However, Netflix is going in the opposite direction, giving us less information and fewer options.

      Delete
    2. I'd add date and language to the list of useful information that Netflix should provide.

      Delete
    3. We should also remember that most people don't even have the option to sort their lists- that's a special feature we've all turned on. Apparently the majority of Netflix users don't care to sort a list of what they plan to watch next, and would rather just scroll through randomly until something strikes them. So I'm pretty pessimistic that we're going to see any improvements for users like us :/

      Delete
    4. not to be doom and gloom, but i agree. the last time i called, i brought up again my request to return the numbers to My List. i stated that it takes me *minutes* to drag and drop a title where i want it, which is a gigantic waste of time. the rep (the one who used to be a programmer in the late '90s and early '00s but now does customer service for netflix because it's "more social") told me most people don't use My List that way, i think saying something to the effect of they add a title, watch it, and then delete it from there. people by and large aren't using it as an organizational tool like we are, to lesser degrees of success with each redesign.

      Delete
    5. Glad I'm not the only one who wants the numbers to return to My List.

      Delete
    6. When I mentioned quickly moving a title back down in the queue I was referring to using the numbers. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. I called to complain several times when they removed that feature.

      Travis, I'm calling BS on most people don't use My List that way. When I've called customer service about them removing the numbers and how long it takes to move things down My List, I was told many people had the same complaint. I think they've created a sluggish graphic intensive monster and they're removing features and information in order to speed things up. People use My List the same way they use the queue on the DVD site. It's a queue and you want to order it, group it and use it to make your selection easier. It doesn't need to be some fancy graphics page. Also, they use Amazon Web Services and may be trying to reduce processing costs, but they could do that with a more streamlined functional My List.

      Delete
    7. i've mentioned not liking the change to them multiple times as well, and the last time i even used an anecdote of one of his own coworkers agreeing with me, except she told me she scrolls (swipes?) through her phone. when i say that the last rep said he doesn't think customers use My List that way, i mean having hundreds of titles and a specific organization for them maintained over a course of years. that used to be convenient when there were numbers that could be edited like we still can in a discs queue, not to mention browser addons that enhanced the netflix experience with such options as sorting by genre. this rep, who i said more about on the discussion page, claimed he really valued my comments as a long time user, especially coming from his perspective as a former programmer, and acted like he'd never heard what i was saying before, as if to emphasize these are not what average customers care about. i suppose it depends on who you get, but regardless i don't see netflix going back anytime soon no matter how much better we think it would be.

      i think you're right about some of their reasoning for the changes. i told that rep i would trade a few seconds more to load My List for the minutes it takes me to move what i add nearly every time. i did notice that My List doesn't fail to load properly like it used to (more comments on that page of this blog). i also just noticed the other day a new web site netflix is loading background scripts from (those with NoScript or Lightbeam might have as well) called nflxvideo.net. i prefer the interface of their dvd site, but i can live with the graphics overload of the streaming site, just give us back some of the functionality is all most of us are asking. i told them as much a couple years ago when they had that major design overhaul; the bells and whistles aren't for me, i am a content and useful features person.

      Delete
    8. I'm not familiar with the addons for Netflix. I use Firefox for Linux and don't see anything that sorts by genre. In doing a search, I do note the number of addons for making user ratings easier to see. How odd that programmers would go to such extremes to do this when the geniuses at Netflix appear clueless regarding the user experience.

      Do these addons still work and do you have any recommendations?

      Delete
    9. i don't have it installed anymore and don't remember the name, but if i understand correctly when netflix revoked the public API access and/or redesigned My List, the addons stopped working. i think there were all sorts of features like play trailer, show rotten tomato scores, etc. others here i'm sure used these addons more extensively than i ever used the one i had. i found i preferred my own semiabstract structure but did sort by genre (including "tv shows") as a foundation.

      Delete
  11. Yeah, put me down for favoring stars over thumbs as well. The stars allowed for more honest opinions on how well you liked something. Thumbs only work so well for that.

    To be honest, I migrated over to Letterboxd to record the films that I've seen about a year ago. For me, it works better than either the old or new Netflix way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. checked out letterboxd. I think I am going to start migrating my thousands of ratings so that when netflix finally pisses me off enough my only longing of leaving them having my ratings will be gone and i can easily leave them.

      Delete
  12. Have any of you been using Netflix's chat option to register feedback? I've used it three times since the change, and each time the reps have said that they are sharing my opinions with their colleagues, and that they can see what I've said in previous chats. So I'm trying to be very specific and clear about what things don't work, and not just repeat what I've said before. It would be great for more of us to use this, so they can see some numbers.

    As much as I hate the loss of nuance with the up/down thumbs rather than the gradation of 5 stars, I think it frustrates me even more not to be able to see the ratings. Nothing is visible in the "My List" view of my queues, it's hard to find their suggested percentage without digging down into the title listing, and even that only shows at all for a little over half the titles. There used to be a choice to select what was shown by rating or by "Netflix recommends", but now it's only "Netflix recommends".

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. netflix doesn't make it easy to enter chat. when i'm logged in, it is not an option, only phone. if i log out, then i can use it, and the last time i did so i made it immediately clear i actually was a customer and who i am.

      Delete
  13. The new thumbs down rating system is working good for me. I thumbs down almost all the MA rated garbage original and licensed and I have seen less MA rated garbage show up as recommendations. It is almost like the not interested rating which worked good. The star ratings were useless as rating MA rated garbage one star did not make a difference.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I'm still confused on the ratings % match. Yesterday, I saw it for the first time just under the title on the Netflix web page for single titles. Today, it's not there. In an "ah ha" moment, I thought it might be because I use different browsers, but I just checked. Not there in Firefox (Linux) or IE (windows). Anybody know the magic formula, keystrokes or magic words to make it reappear?

    ReplyDelete
  15. i'm not sure what you mean. i'm still seeing a combination of no data and percentage matches, including some very silly 98%s, in both my browser (firefox in windows) and app (ps3).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe "no data" is what I'm seeing, or not seeing. I do now see some titles have a silly high % and some have nothing at all. I saw "A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night" on the expiring page and when I pull up the Netflix page, it doesn't show any match % at all despite having 219 reviews. It seems they could make up some not so silly numbers based on that many reviews.

      Delete
    2. My original question about where the % match was has been answered. It is just confusing when it's there on some pages, but not others. Its randomness and accuracy are completely separate issues from where to find it. Thanks.

      Delete
  16. I'm sure some others of you have had the same thought: this may be a particularly good time to jump ship from Netflix. If they have made all our past ratings suddenly meaningless to their algorithm, the added value of their recommendation service is gone. At that point, it comes down to whether their catalog alone--with the frustration of trying to make sense of it--is worth $9.99 a month. I've started looking into other services.

    (More on the FAQ/Resources page , which seems like a better place for a non-Netflix discussion, but my short version is that both Filmstruck and Sundance look good for $6.99 a month.)

    Besides, Netflix says they keep your ratings and viewing history for 10 months if you cancel, so there's a decent chance they'll still be there if you decide to re-up within that time period. If a lot of people pull out, they may realize that they really do need to fix something. (Or we may realize we're actually happier with something different.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good point. The netflix app on my tv still has the stars, but as Kari pointed out earlier, what matched my ratings with 4-5 stars is now showing 1-2 stars. With years of ratings now meaningless, I may drop the online and look for other options. Last night I picked one of the highest rated titles (3 stars) from My List I came to and it was not worth finishing. I'm really not happy the way they did this.

      Delete
    2. BTW, I pulled a copy of My List off of Firefox so I could have a permanent list when I cancel the online subscription and I found the html has the match %, but is doesn't display. I checked Internet Explorer 11 to see if maybe it was an issue with Firefox, but IE doesn't display it either.

      Delete
    3. that's interesting. they probably do plan to introduce it when they gather more data, but i'd have thought they wouldn't have it in there already, slowing load times. i guess they really are committed to bloat.

      btw, i found it more useful to save My List via print to PDF, but that was before they removed stars. it may not matter much now.

      Delete
  17. speaking of firefox, my discs queue has been on the fritz this week. i called CS and got the usual advice about clearing cookies and a claim that there is no problem on their end even though it was affecting firefox and chrome (slightly differently). i used the opportunity to ask about ratings and was told the discs side is not changing to thumbs. the way she said it made me think netflix is getting an earful about this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The disc queue still has numbers, stars and the convenient popup when you mouse over a title. In other words, it's useful, so I'll keep it and maybe drop the online. I pulled the html of the online so I could easily convert it into a spreadsheet. As a bonus, I have the match % data. Not sure I would get that with a pdf. 57% of my titles had match % info embedded with the titles. I didn't see too much rhyme or reason as to what had % match and what didn't. More seasonal series seemed to have it vs movies, but I was surprised House of Cards didn't have % match.

      I took a moment to start the tv app to compare the match % with the star ratings that are still on the app. I can't prove it, but I swear the suggested (red vs yellow) star ratings were different from the ratings last night. Some had more stars, some had fewer and some had none.

      Delete
    2. no, i'm sure you wouldn't get that with the PDF. the print to PDF is more to preserve how it looks; saving to HTML for me never really reflected that. my purposes were more for keeping track of titles that were about to expire (epix, miramax, and universal tv titles i didn't get to).

      i agree, it's hard to understand why some titles don't have percentage matches. i haven't given any thumbs up or down but still have a lot of percentage matches anyway, presumably based on my old ratings, viewing history, and what i've added to My List. other than the odd choices for high 90s, if anything i've found my percentage matches on the low side, given the over 4,000 ratings i've provided the company. maybe engaging their new system would make a difference, but it's not worth my time: i am still rating stars on the dvd site and now numbers on IMDB (i have hopes amazon will keep this site around longer than letterboxd, which doesn't have all of the titles on IMDB anyway). it's a drag because i used to rate something just once, and it would often be from the comfort of my couch.

      Delete
    3. My discs queue (Mac, Firefox) has just been reprogrammed and, surprisingly, improved. Before, there was a circle to the far right of each title line which, when clicked on, would give options to move, move to top, remove or play, if the title was also streaming. Now, when I have the cursor on a title line, the move and remove option buttons appear, without a click. And the play button which, until it was buried in the circle, used to be a prominent bight blue button, is back on the main title line, although now a pale blue.

      Delete
  18. It keeps getting worse, but that's not surprising. In the past, when I had a title listed in my DVD queue and it became available online, if I watched it online and rated it the rating would show in my DVD queue. This was an easy to spot reminder to delete it from my queue.

    Well, not any more.

    Looks like they've disconnected the online ratings from the DVD queue. Another added value that no longer exists. Another reason to stay with a "complete" online/dvd service has been tossed in the trash. Something I rated online in early March is showing up in the DVD side, but nothing after that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That actually has been happening for some time that I noticed some movies when you rated online it would not transfer to dvd. So every time I rated one, I went to the dvd side to make sure it rated. However as soon as they went to the stupid thumbs rating every single movie was disconnected and now nothing rates there. So I have to rate everything twice like you said.

      Delete
  19. The thumbs rating is working better for me as I am thumbing down everything MA rating and I have not seen much unlike with the star ratings.

    I am afraid though I might crash Netflix as most of there content and more they are adding is Mature garbage so when I browse I had the NF app crash and on my browser freeze up because of the lack of non MA rated content.

    Example is if I am browsing and it only shows about 5 to 6 titles instead of many more because they are Mature rating NF site might freeze up or on the TV crash with a error and reload.

    ReplyDelete
  20. It's been well over a week and I thought I'd take a look around the Internet for more feedback on the rating system change. Business Insider had an article on Cameron Johnson who was in charge of the change. As I read the article, all I could think about was the bizarre credit card excuse they gave a few years ago when they missed their subscriber numbers. Which they missed again, btw. And that was before this change. What he was saying just didn't make sense. That people didn't understand the rating system.. It's five stars.? What's to not understand? Basically, my interpretation was, he was saying people were too stupid to use a five star rating system. When they tested the thumbs up/down, the simpletons would use it. Isn't that great? Everything has to be dumbed down to the lowest denominator. Maybe they'll add Farmville soon.

    There was also talk over on Yahoo about the Amy Schumer bomb where her show got terrible ratings. I think it was a Netflix original and some of their other original content bombed out. Schumer used her platform to express political views and people that didn't like it, basically said they didn't like it. That's not a shock. This change, however, was well under way before Schumer messed up, but NF is branding content now and has a vested interest in controlling reviews and ratings. Some credible speculation was NF originals getting a rating of 3 or 4 wouldn't look nearly as good as one big thumbs up. If you think about it, three stars was "Liked it", but I don't think Netflix would be happy with three stars, when in the new system it gets a solid thumbs up. If this was about customer satisfaction, you would want more granular information. Data mining isn't binary. They're full of it.

    As for feedback on the web, it's not positive. Even in the Yahoo video I saw, one of the talking heads slipped up and asked why so many users were unhappy about it. Comments on yahoo were overwhelmingly negative. One site I'm not familiar with, entertainment.slashdot.org, was negative too, but the op said a % match below 50% won't show a % at all. That would be consistent with them making the change to control the narrative. If it's less than 50%, go dark...

    Positive comments were few and far between. In fact, it's a stretch to find any.

    In summary, especially after Cameron Johnson's interview, we're nothing but marketing fodder. So for those of us that thought we were paying for a service, I'm feeling more like it's facebook data mining and marketing for a fee.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i'll look for the article, but that's essentially what they were saying last year or whenever i first heard about this idea of theirs. i have to admit they may have a point about the rating system. i always suspected my predicted ratings were so out of whack because other streaming users were giving all 1s and 5s. i think the dvd customers are a bit savvier, which may explain why that wasn't switched. streaming is all about instant gratification. i suspect that the change also benefits their originals because those adam sandler movies were some of their only content not staying in the 4 1/2- to 5-star territory for me and probably others. i doubt it felt good to netflix to have productions they poured millions into get met with a collective shrug or worse. unfortunately for us, it's their ball and their court so they can do whatever they want and have proven time and again that they will do just that.

      speaking of controlling reviews, i noticed early last year that a lot of titles that had been on the (discs) service for years had obviously had their reviews wiped and restarted. that was weird. the customers contribute decades of ratings and reviews and netflix just ditches them.

      Delete
    2. I have a different theory about why online ratings were so far off. You may be right about the streaming users going 1s and 5s, but online and dvd have proven they are going their separate ways. What if the online side created their own marketing/rating/suggestion system from the get go? Like you said, they are going to do what they want to do with their ball and their court. What's to say they didn't monkey with the ratings/marketing of the content they wanted to push? And if they got it wrong, they could always blame the users and then revamp the ratings system. Arrogance knows no bounds. Let's not forget the expiring credit card excuse.

      Dumped reviews? I guess at this point, that would be par for the course.

      Delete
    3. Oh, btw. Online reviews, what a pain to read. Has anyone noticed a disconnect between what the reviewer writes and the star rating they have given the title? I read some of these reviews and they talk about how they like the show or movie, this was good, that was great and then they give it a two star rating.. What? It's like the ratings are scrambled. Disconnected from the review.

      Delete
    4. The star ratings were good when they had a not interested option like the thumbs down but when they got rid of the not interested option (btw not the first service to do that despite user feedback wanting it) I started to see a explosion of MA rated garbage show up as recommended content.

      Real solution is to bring back the star ratings but also give us a not interested option otherwise they are useless.

      Delete
    5. A two tier system was proposed in comments from users for the same reason. Basically a stars with a not interested choice. As I understand the thumb system, if you down thumb a title, it will never show as a suggestion again. But, that leaves everything else in the okay to push it universe. Anyway, they're not going back because they don't care and I still say they are not being honest on why they are doing this. Certainly not being honest regarding user feedback being mixed.

      Delete
    6. It works for the most part. I logged into another profile and right in the spotlight it shows that filthy 13 ways garbage NF show but on my profile it is banished and has not showed up at all.

      Delete
  21. MyList on my Vizio smart TV is still showing star ratings, and I can rate what I stream with stars. (MyList on the Netflix app on my iPad is all thumbs.) But the star ratings have changed. There are a good many titles now showing a one or two red star nrating, or none at all, than was the case before. These are titles I put on the list, so Netflix seems to want to make it clear that they think I won't like the titles I selected. Odd?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cameron Johnson clearly doesn't think much of the user base, so you not knowing what you want to watch fits the Netflix Corp mentality. The suggested ratings on my Vizio are trash too. Weird why I would have put them in my list, but maybe Netflix will fix that for me soon. Arrogance knows no bounds.

      I don't know about your Vizio model, but there seems to be an issue with certain models and Amazon Prime app. On some models, the Amazon Prime Watchlist isn't available. Newer sets were updated with a newer app that has the Watchlist. There is a long customer discussion over on Amazon about the problem, but it makes me wonder if updating the apps on smart TV's is going to be an issue. Whatif, Netflix can't update their app on Vizio older sets with the new thumb up the ... app? I don't know any facts regarding Netflix, but there are some unhappy Vizio/Prime customers.

      Delete
  22. New thumbs series does not work. As soon as NF adds more hot garbage mature original filth it shows up right away on my spotlight even showing a 99% that I like that garbage. So it works in hiding after you thumbs down but is utterly useless when they add any new garbage I hate.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. more proof that netflix is inflating the appeal and popularity of its own content

      Delete
    2. From a "CNN tech" article.
      "And Netflix will no longer show you a star rating of films you've never seen. Instead, it'll offer a "% Match score" -- which is a prediction of how much you'll enjoy a movie or TV show based on your viewing habits. It doesn't factor in how other users have rated the video. "

      Think about that for a moment. It no longer matters what viewers think individually or the masses, it's what some central planner thinks you should want to watch. Choices are made by those that know better. They claim it is based on your viewing habits, but if it's not other like minded viewers, what becomes the criteria for a match? Genre? MPAA rating? Cast? Or as we suspect, content producer? It's like saying reviews are worthless, so I wonder when they start working on that little problem?

      I think I read somewhere the thumbs down is only for that particular title to not be suggested again.

      Delete
    3. Someone took a poll. 71% didn't like the change. Only 19% liked it.

      http://exstreamist.com/report-71-of-netflix-subscribers-dislike-the-new-rating-system/

      Delete
    4. Just because I watch some family movie or show that happens to have a mature garbage notflix original example the star from that filth 13 ways show is also in the family movie "Goosebumbs" which is PG it should not push there MA rated filth because it has some of the same actors.

      Delete
  23. Four losses to user experience.

    https://medium.com/@bradknox/4-ways-netflixs-all-thumbs-rating-system-abandons-its-power-users-35405c04cb9

    It seems in most articles/posts I've found, people have figured out this change didn't make sense and is related to pushing their own content.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. had to laugh a little at the FIVE STARS (seems to confirm my thoughts on how streamers were using the rating system despite the claim in this article about nuance) and the 1 star for amy schumer (per alt-right campaign discussed in that GMA/yahoo video that confirmed for netflix they were making the correct decision no matter how many lowly customers disagree).

      netflix is a business (and their stock is way up in the last year so they remain successful from that perspective). i just wish they would come out and say they have a vested interest in making us watch their originals and be transparent about any content they are paid or otherwise compelled to promote. their streaming ratings, matches, and suggestions are clearly a farce.

      people also seem to lose sight of the fact that the dvd site still lists both a predicted rating per customer based on unique data and an overall average from a given number of customers who have rated the title. i find this more useful, transparent, and believable than whatever the streaming site and app were telling me, be they stars or percentage matches. the dvd side of the same web site/company has earned my trust based on what it's always done with my ratings, and streaming is less trustworthy than ever.

      Delete
    2. I agree, the dvd side was much more reliable. I generally had no problem moving titles to the top of my queue based on four and five star ratings and being happy with that choice. I still suspect the streaming side was humping their content and may have been tweaking the suggested ratings in addition to your "instant gratification" theory. As for the amy schumer thing, if you trash half your audience, I would expect those viewers to never want to support/view your content again. That's kind of the way life works. But, bottom line, Netflix is using dishonest tactics to push their streaming content and selling it as customer service. I suspect they may have another credit card chip issue soon.

      Delete
    3. i agree, they are dishonest and don't frame their business practices as exhibiting the bias i believe they have.

      perhaps the streaming ratings were partially the victim of our times. i've not watched that schumer special, but if people were rating it without seeing it based on political views, that says something about how useful those star ratings were so long as they took into account other customers' ratings. it seems the spin is now that they didn't, but didn't that campaign successfully tank her score? they can't both be true. then you have people like tony who, in the absence of a "not interested" rating, used a 1-star rating for mature garbage so netflix would stop foisting it on him. fair enough for a user strategy, but that's another way ratings were being influenced by those who didn't even watch the content. like i said, with people with their own agenda for giving 1 star, those who give any enjoyable movie 5 stars, and the business itself trying to shape what we watch, no wonder my predicted ratings were always so distorted. too bad they didn't just use the same ratings they already had from discs. they already own the data.

      Delete
    4. Music services like Apple Music, Play Music and Spotify can get recommendations for me almost dead on accurate about 95% almost right away biased on my listening and rating habits why can't video services do it too I guess because music services have millions of songs and streaming services like Notflix have only a few thousand title most garbage.

      Delete
    5. Travis, I guess I'm confused on what you think the star ratings were for. I rated titles based on how much I liked them. Not some Hollywood white castle politically correct art school criteria. Notflix (hat tip Tony) used those ratings to suggest titles for "Me". Awards are not given out based on my ratings. If someone wants to use their comedy platform to trash a particular political party, that title is going to be rated low by those offended. That's not a conspiracy. If other offended party viewers pulled up the show, they would probably see a one star rating. Some people might pull up her show and they might see five stars as suggested for them. If the overall average gets brought down, well that's how life works. Anytime someone trashes half the country, if it's race, sex, age, political beliefs, religious beliefs or any of the other things we as Americans aren't suppose to discriminate against, I don't think there should be some secret squirrel hidden Hollywood criteria that would give that title a five star rating. That becomes propaganda or simply pushing content, which is what I think we both agree Notflix is doing with this change.

      Not to keep picking on the schumer title, but it's a good example. FWIW, I haven't seen the schumer show either. Politics aside, I heard it just wasn't that good. There is no perfect system. It seems the "not interested" option would also skew the ratings because the offended people might choose that, pushing the star ratings higher than they otherwise would be. I'm not sure how other "like minded viewers" selecting "not interested" would affect my suggestions. Somehow, the dvd suggestions work out well. Not having it on the streaming side leaves a very big hole in my viewing experience. It's really a PITA going to IMDB for ratings and then searching for reviews before I click play. On the dvd side, I thin my queue out of one and two star rated titles.

      Delete
    6. regardless of what i used them for, netflix themselves have been inconsistent about what the star ratings were for. as you've pointed out, they are saying that customers were using them to play film critic. they seem to have played both sides of whether the stars represented predictions from not only personal data, but also data from other customers; the successful campaign to rate down the schumer special should prove the stars were affected by all users, as otherwise the predicted rating wouldn't have changed. i know i've witnessed predicted ratings change drastically in short amounts of time, usually the first days after becoming available to stream. what i was pointing out is that they maintain on the discs side of the same web site both a rating predicted for the customer and right below it an aggregate of all ratings to date, going so far as to list the number of ratings factored in, which can be more than a million. that seems objectively more valuable than what used to be an undefined star rating and the current system of maybe a match, maybe no match shown at all, and the option to give thumbs up or down.

      Delete
    7. Ok, here's how I see the star ratings. Three things, or three sets of star ratings. 1) I rate a title. Let's say I give it a five. That's rating one. 2) My rating goes into the total average for the title. That's rating two. Maybe that's a meaningless rating, maybe not. But Netflix (dvd side) uses my rating to calculate a #3) suggested rating based on their algorithm. That's rating #3. Netflix displays both the average and the suggested rating of similar titles until I rate those titles, then they display my rating and the new overall average. The suggested rating is what is important to me. The average is based on people I don't care about. Back to the schumer example. If someone goes onstage with the intent to offend half the country, I don't see it as a "successful campaign" for that half of the country to one star the content. Why on earth would they be expected to rate it any other way? Will it bring her average star rating down? You bet, and it should. It should also drop similar titles, based on the algorithm, down in suggested ratings for that half of the country. That was the whole point of the star system as I understood it. If I keep the average star rating and the suggested star rating separate, I'm not seeing the confusion.

      BTW, on the streaming side.. The other night I noticed on my Netflix smart-tv app, the ratings that were fours and fives before the change, that after the change went to one's and two's, are now showing four's and five's again. I have no idea if the stars are just random garbage now going up and down on a whim or if they have returned to the earlier exaggerated ratings. Maybe they are just screwing with us some more.. That really wouldn't surprise me at this point.

      Delete
  24. I refuse to use the thumb system. I am instead going to keep track of what I watch and what I thought of it in a simple Word document. If it is available on the DVD side, I will rate it there.

    But, yes, it definitely seems more like they are just trying to shove their originals down our throats, whether we will like them or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can still rate using stars on my Vizio smart TV, so I rate all the films I stream there, even if I watched then on the ipad, which only has thumb ratings.

      Delete
    2. Vizio here too and I've yet to thumb anything. Still using the stars. I guess the question is, are the star ratings going anywhere? Do they transfer to the dvd side? I don't think they do, but not 100% sure.

      Have you noticed the suggested ratings going from 4's and 5's to 1's and 2's and back again? I have.. No idea what it means.

      Delete
    3. netflix said that any star ratings from apps won't save. those with a discs plan should check dvd.netflix.com to see if those ratings went through or rerate accordingly.

      Delete
    4. Well, not to call Netflix liars or dishonest or anything like that, but if I go to the web to "Your Account" (not yours, but mine) and click "Ratings", my online viewing activity with star ratings are showing titles I rated on my smart-tv app from this week.

      Another thing I miss is the information of when I watched a title if I pull it up on the dvd site. Hey, but aren't those graphics pretty. If I want the movie graphics, I'll watch the movie. I want information to help me select what to watch and if I've seen it that information would be helpful.

      Delete
    5. Oops, didn't see CanandaiguaNY's reply below.

      The more I look at what Netflix has done, the more areas I realize they've screwed up.

      Delete
  25. When I go to "your account" and clock on "ratings" I see all my ratings, both streaming and DVD, in reverse chronicological order. Except that the two I rated thumbs down are out of order, at the top of the list.

    I just watched "Mysteries of the Unseen World." It wasn't on my list, but I watched because Carol had put it in bold and Eric gave it a good rating. I gave it four stars--but Netflix had given it a one star anticipated rating for me. Go figure.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I kind of had to stop paying attention to their anticipated star ratings for certain genres, because Netflix would sometimes have them flat-out wrong on the streaming side. But, I'm also the kind of person who will sometimes watch movies and shows no matter what star rating Netflix (either side) thinks I will give it, because sometimes movies and shows will surprise you and tastes change. (It also looks like some of my taste preferences got lost when they changed the format for that page on the DVD side, so this may be part of the problem.) The percentages, however, don't even try to consider what I'd previously rated some of those titles. I made it a rule to rate everything immediately after I watched it, after rewatching a movie from years ago that I had forgotten to rate. The loss of easily seeing what I have already watched without having to go into my ratings history is the worst part of this change to me.

      Delete
  26. i have had the dvd netflix for over ten years and got netflix streaming as soon as it came out. in the menu on my computer it has a category titled "you've rated" and i made a free account on IMDB and transferred everything from "you've rated" onto IMDB. i wish i would have done this sooner because IMDB is more in depth and it keeps a number of what youve rated and can rate between 1-10. according to youve rated on the netflix dvd site i have rated 5416 titles....... so transferring all of that to imdb to keep track of what ive seen and how many ive seen was a humongous hassle...but i like using imdb because you can see your favorite actors entire filmography and at the bottom of every film it has an entire category of related movies im glad im using it now instead as my main tracker and information hub. thumbs down on netflix.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i haven't yet transferred all of my ratings to IMDB, but i've been rating on netflix and IMDB both every time i finish something. i'm sure once i add all of my ratings, those IMDB recommendations will be more meaningful; it's still recommending movies i've seen but not rated there. (also, to reference another page of this site and something Lee K said there, because i've been spending more time on IMDB, i've been reading more of their member reviews, and those are good, too. there are more ratings and usually more reviews on netflix, but at least on IMDB you don't get complaints about broken, missing, or wrong discs, people begging for streaming, or the copy and paste of "another in the long line of the worst movies ever. don't waste your time" or some other nonsense.) IMDB still lost a lot of its value for me when it 86ed its forums, and i still find it visually easier to keep track of what i've seen from a netflix filmography because i can hover my mouse over the poster art and see my rating if any, even though this, too, was more useful in the past because the stars were displayed directly below the titles, which were ordered more logically as well. that aside, IMDB is the ideal solution if for no other reason than i see the ratings outlasting netflix's star ratings. amazon displays the IMDB rating of a title on its video platform. they understand the value of their user data, smaller than netflix's as IMDB's is. i don't think netflix discs will ditch its decades of ratings and adopt the thumbs up/down system, but who knows how much longer the discs service will be around, at least as part of netflix, which may not include historical data as part of a selloff? the continual separation of its two services and streaming adopting the thumb system made me finally take steps toward transferring my ratings, which also frees me to cancel. (i can just save my rental history and queue pages.)

      Delete
  27. What I make sure I do on the first Friday is I go to the Netflix home page on the computer search for Netflix and thumbs down all the new MA rated filth before they try to shove it down on the TV app. It works for the most part except last week when they had the nerve to show a MA rated original LGBT title that make me sick to the stomach.

    ReplyDelete
  28. BTW it was this title
    https://www.netflix.com/search?q=netflix&jbv=80142223&jbp=3&jbr=0

    ReplyDelete
  29. Maybe this is a dead topic, but I just wrote a review on the worst movie ever and notice the star ratings are still there. But, what a disconnected service Netflix has turned out to be. With star ratings, I could flip through MyList or their suggestions/New releases/trending/etc. and pick a title based on stars and have reasonable confidence in my satisfaction with the choice. Having now seen the worst movie ever, I am forced to research before wasting my time on the absolute crap they are pushing. They really need to fire somebody.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Can't find your review so I'm curious as to what the worst movie is.

      Delete
    2. Oceans Rising. And, it's not available on DVD, so the normal Netflix ratings stars are not available. It managed a 2.5 on IMDB, but that is a 10 point scale and would have likely rounded to a 1 star on Netflix.

      Delete